Wai-Con Forum

Thanks for all the entries guys, the board is going to have a tough time sorting through and finding the best ones. They're all such high quality - it's crazy!

We'll try and notify the winner next week, but I expect ALL OF YOU to enter the art competitions at the con. Seriously, there is a lot of untapped talent out there that I want to see!

I'll try and organise art competition rules for next week too.

dam i missed it. T_T oh well there comps at the up coming waicon..

Hi Mike, by any chance you could show us some of the pictures you received? we all know that the judge's decision is final, it's just that my curiousity kicks in when you said the entry for this year's so good.. may be on the arts forum? we all love good arts.. =) [/quote]

I think its gonna be the same person as usual. Im glad I didnt enter anyways -_-

The same person as usual? I was pretty sure that there was a different artist winning every year? But anyway.

Keep in mind when we do judge, we have to judge based on what would be best for marketing for a whole year as well, which can include how well the characters look on their own (without backgrounds or what), how easily they can be redrawn or made into chibis, etc etc. So it really isn't as simple as, "Who's the best artist, who had the best art?" for the Mascot Competition.

That's very rude. We've had different winners every year, if I remember correctly.


Not a bad idea at all. Lenoria is right - people have to remember that it's not just how good of an artist you are that goes into this competition, but marketability. Aah, the smell of capitalism.

Seriously though, there were some superb artworks for the competition. If I do put some of them up, I'm just afraid people will start to complain when they compare. As in "What?! How could THAT one win, this one is CLEARLY SUPERIOR!" and the ilk. Y'know?

that's fair enough.. just thought i should ask.. who knows, thanks anyway.... have fun judging..

I think Twinklee won two of them. That said, The winning entries are excellent every year, so if you didn't win, maybe you're not as great an artist as you think.

The winner has been chosen! This was a painstaking decision because of all the fantastic artwork, but there can be only one choice.

We'd like to congratulate Erry H. and present the new mascots!

--edit-- picture has been taken down for contestment. The mascot will be officially re-unveiled (that's a word, right?) at the closing ceremony.

That looks awesome. Congratulations to the winner.

That is so cute. ^^ The robot must be made for next year's Wai-con. XD

Congratulations to the winner! Those are great mascots! ^^

awesome! i think it's a well deserve win.. congratulation!!!

Woo, nice! I'd like to see Trina try and cosplay this one!

Naruto #2 complete with an akatsuki cloud(think itachi) badge on the shoulder

I don't cosplay boys!

But you could cosplay the robot..

Precisely! I was referring to the robot anyway.

... that's the Wai-Con eye.

The '08 mascots are teh best!!

Congratz Erry H.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A quick announcement -

It has come to our attention that our new mascot may be infringing on another artist's personal copyright ("USA-Boy" by Shigeru Katoh) so we have decided to remove the current image of the mascot for the time being.

We have requested that the artist resubmit the mascot so that it doesn't cause copyright issues.

The altered mascot will be shown at the closing ceremony.

- BN (Comps Coordinator)

One has to wonder why you'd choose to continue with and support an entry which infringes on another artist's personal copyright and is clearly against your own rules in the first place.

For those who haven't seen, this is the comparison between the two characters in question. As much as I hate to believe that someone would just rip a character like this and pretend it's their own, I find it incredibly hard to believe that the similarities are purely coincidence and that artist has never seen Usa boy before. Even if that is the case, I would have thought the logical course of action would be to rechoose another submission rather than hack up the copyrght infringing character a bit to cover your asses legally.

It really disappoints me that the Panic committee have decided chosen this route, because as I see it, it doesn't benefit anyone but the artist in question. Having a copyright infringing mascot can't be good for Wai Con or Panic in the least. Supporting and rewarding what is basically art theft doesn't send out a particularly good or moral message to local artists and people already under the mistaken impression that copying is perfectly moral and legal. It certainly doesn't benefit any of the other artists who actually followed the rules in this competition and submitted an entirely original character - which is why I've decided to post this publicly, because I think they have a right to know what has happened.

I'm sure plenty of people will dismiss my complaints as being a sore loser, but I assure you I had no expecation of winning this contest and really don't care who does - as long as it's a legal entry. I do feel completely insulted that the comittee has chosen to disregard mine and other artists complaints about this sitation - and no, 'retooling' this copied character is far from what I consider to be a reasonable solution.

I still strongly encourage the committee to rethink their decision and do what is actually right rather than just covering your asses in terms of copyright.

Sigh. I had thought we'd resolved this.

This was brought up at the public GM on Saturday by myself. There's an announcement just a post above yours. I've responded to emails from yourself and other artists quite candidly about this. It's not like we're keeping this away from the public here. If we were truly disregarding yours and other complaints, we would not have brought up the situation at all.

As I explained to you, we at PAniC do in fact discourage art theft. (No way, really?) However after talking with the artist about this, we came to the conclusion that it was just an unfortunate coincidence. We don't take pleasure in calling fellow artists "thieves" at the drop of a hat - we tried to investigate the situation and find out what had exactly occurred. He hadn't heard of Katoh or the character before. (Neither had the board or some artists I talked to. A Google search just brough up DA accounts liking the artist. They're not exactly well known it seems - but that's besides the point.) Between discussions with the artist as well as some notable differences between the character, we decided to give Erry the benefit of the doubt. (I'm not saying there aren't similarities, but there are some good differences as well.)

However in terms of fairness and due to concerns of other artists, we have asked the winner to resubmit their art piece. If it is still good, then he will remain the winner. If not, then we will default to the runner-up.

PAniC does not condone art theft, period.

I'm disappointed that you've decided to jump into this "burn the witch" mentality about the situation without considering the other side of the argument. We do not take into the practice of calling people art thieves at the first sign of trouble. Everyone should be innocent until proven guilty, correct?

If you honestly believe that then I invite you to use the originally submitted mascot and see how that turns out for you. If the character requires heavy redesign (as it will, if you would like to escape more accusations of plagiarism), then clearly it isn't the most suitable entry for the purpose - regardless of whether the artist is innocent or not.

I guess we'll see come the convention then. I believe Bakaneko has answered your question adequately, and a Board of 9 decided resubmission and rejudging would be an adequate solution, so I think that your ranting on here is unlikely to change that decision.

Also keep in mind Chisa that we are a week away from a major convention, and though this IS a problem, this is not a PRIORITY problem. So perhaps you could take a second to sympathise with the Board here and realise that this problem will have to dealt with at a later date, and perhaps lay off a little? We're sorry that you're disappointed with us, but really our hands are tied until after the convention, so there's no real point you going off again and again on here.

I'm not appreciating the implication that I'm ranting or being particularly unreasonable here - that isn't my intention, and I just felt it was important to express my opinion in the hope that it would actually change something. I can see that this isn't the case, so I'll stop wasting my time on this and bothering you as it seems you are determined to disagree with me and others who have complained.

I do not see Chisa's post on this matter as being unreasonable at all, she is only expressing her opinion as seen from the point of view of another artist.

I am also a local artist myself, and I have attended WaiCon a couple of times in previous years. I have not participated in this mascot competition, so I want to make it clear that I have nothing to benefit from this. I am just expressing my own concerns from an artists's point of view.

In summary:

1. It is discovered that the original mascot looks like Usaboy, an already copyrighted and published character belonging to someone else.
2. The committee decides to retract the design and get the artist to resubmit a new one, despite there already being other runner up entries which can be used instead, which are so far clean of any accusations of copyright infringement.


I believe that unfortunate coincidences CAN and DO happen all the time, and whether the original design is a rip or not, only the artist of the mascot will know. However I find it it bit too much of a coincidence that this mascot with the same red rabbit eared helmet with round leather goggles, same ruddy-faced little boy with same white shirt and shorts, has been created independently of Usaboy. Even if he has been created independently, next to Usaboy he looks like fanart OF Usaboy.

It's not about who wins the mascot design competition and who gets the prize dvd and who gets to have their mascot splashed on all the promotional material for Waicon 08; it's the principle of "it looks like it was infringing on copyright before, so let's just change it, even if the original design has already created a lot of controversy for everyone who has come across Usaboy before".


Won't it just make everyone happier if Waicon uses the runner-up's entry for the 2008 mascot, and just have the original winner submit another entry for the 2009 mascot? I think the existing Usaboy-lookalike will just leave a bad feeling to all who were involved no matter how much you retool him.

Just my 2 cents.


Wred.

and how many cons around the world use fanart-style images of already existing characters for their mascots? (I'd like to point out too, of EXTREMELY well know characters)

I think this thing is being blown way out of proportion and realisticlly. shit happens, get over it.
an honest mistake occured, steps have been taken to correct it, deal with it.

if this keeps heading the way I'm seeing it head, I believe that disiplianry action may need to be taken, something I really don't want to have to start doing.

one final thing, for the record. I have more of an inside view as to whats been happening behind the scenes with this matter than you do, and trust me, it is not a simple matter of "picking another image/mascot" there are much more complex things that are getting in the way.

now I'm going to go deal with matters that are more likely to bring down the wrath of copyrights lawyers than a damn image.....

(ps. thank you trina for saying EXACTLY what I was going to say earlier.. but in a way that is 100 million times nicer...*deletes typed rant..*)

Hi everyone.. I know the artist Erry H. who submit his work for wai-con mascot competition personally and as I am living with him, I saw myself how he works and designed the mascot from scratch. He worked hard for it and I'll never believe that he plagiarised somebody else's work.

it was an honest mistake.

I am very sorry that this has caused such controversy. But as fellow artists, some of you must have some experience when your original work apparently looked very similar to someone else's work.. or if you work in advertising, how your idea when you are still at uni doing your assignment is very similar to this new ad you see on tv.. or when you are a struggling scriptwriter or comic artist was ahocked to see there's a movie or series that was so very alike to the one you are working on.
unfortunately, some people ideas or how their brain works or however you call it, are the similar.

I believe the judges will come to a conclusion to what they think is best for the con, and the artist will appreciate whatever is the outcome from it. But please so not judge him as thief, or ripping other works or anything mean, because it hurts my feeling to read it.. i will really appreciate it. Please treat others as you will want to be treated.

First off I’d like to say that I am in agreement with both what chisa and wred wrat have to say. Seeing next years mascots and “usa-boy” with their immaculate similarities really disheartens me as an artist and brings out the inner rage of art thievery in me.

I won’t delve into more since a lot of points have already been mentioned on both sides but I will say this that I am both saddened and disappointed with how panic has chosen to approach the situation.

Having evidence that the mascot is infringing on copyright laws I thought panic would have dropped the mascot like a hot potato, I was shocked when I read that you were simply going to re-tool the character to avoid copyright infringement laws. It really treds on all the hard work artists have put into making original characters when something like this happens. I’m trying not to rant and rave as I know that the situation itself is bad for panic since the convention is coming up real soon but I can’t help but make a point that this is how I feel about it.

With the current events happening in regards to next years mascot and the actions taken against it, as an artist and a lover of anime/manga I will have to think twice about any future contributions to wai-con competitions as this has seriously left me with a new and unfortunate look on how art, creativity and originality are treated.

Rei_zero, I will not have threats of 'disciplinary action' made against forum members that, as far as I can see, are not acting belligerantly or disruptively.
[Rei_zero] If you read what i said, you'd see I mentioned "If it goes the way I'm seeing it head" I've had these things before

All I have seen is expression of points-of-view and concern from these members, and I would like to see restraint from both board and moderators in response.

This is a touchy subject, and offhand comments and the like can lead to rapid degredation of reasoned discourse into meaningless argument.

I invite anyone concerned over this issue to email me at president@panic-wa.org expressing your views, and I will attempt to address these concerns to the best of my ability. In my view, this issue is one best handled without the added complication of mixed messages and interjections from many and varied persons.